Navigating the Witch Wound and Finding Confidence as a Spiritual Entrepreneur with Susan de Vriend
Today we have a special guest episode with my friend Susan de Vriend. Susan is an intuitive empath, who supports spiritual business owners to step back into their full confidence in being themselves so that they can bring their gifts to their clients in an authentic and real way.
I’m excited to share Susan’s perspective with you because she’s had a real journey with navigating the witch wound… this deep fear that lives in the collective bodies and consciousness of women that we will be killed or banished for having knowledge and power and abilities that people can’t understand.
Many of you here are following my work because you’re also navigating this path of understanding your gifts more fully and how to bring your gifts more fully into the world, and how to have the confidence and the courage to take action. So I know you’ll take a lot of wisdom and encouragement from hearing Susan’s story and perspective on this!
We chat about…
Susan’s very real “witch hunt” experience when she had a spiritual awakening
How she makes sense of that experience in the context of the work she does
How she supports spiritual entrepreneurs to confidently offer their gifts to the world
What she sees blocking most people on this path
What’s wrong with the paradigm of “healing”
Can you coach other people if you’re still in the “messy middle” of your own journey?
A key ingredient to powerful space holding
What if I’m doing all the spiritual practice and inner work but it’s not having the outward results I want?
How to negotiate our relationship with safety
And much more!
Listen above, or on any of your favorite platforms including Spotify, Apple Podcasts and iHeart Radio . You can also subscribe to the RSS feed here.
Podcast Transcript:
Welcome to today's episode. I have a very exciting show for us today. We have Susan with us, who is an intuitive empath coach and really is going to share with us her journey towards landing with the Most authentic parts of herself and how she then went on to bring her gifts and her fullest expression into the world through her business.
So welcome to the podcast, Susan, would you like to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your business? Yes. Thank you so much, Michelle. I'm really thrilled to be here. I am an intuitive empath, which means I am an intuitive empath, but I, I coach spiritual business owners who do all kinds of things like energy healers, uh, coaches.
Of all kinds to step back into their full confidence in being themselves so that they can focus on their clients in an authentic and real way. And I do this because it's been my own journey. I'm also a Reiki, a Holy fire, Reiki master healer. So I do both energy healings and coaching in my business. And I've been a certified coach for nine and a half years, and I'm American who lives in the Netherlands, and I'm a wife and a mother of one beautiful daughter.
Thank you for sharing that. And I know you have quite an interesting personal journey and what unfolded for you on your path towards entrepreneurship and towards bringing this Somewhat esoteric gift into the world. So tell us a little bit about that. What makes your journey so unique? Well, I feel like somebody somewhere along my path had said this, and it's really true, having a business is also a self development course and living in a foreign country has its own.
Special gifts and development course, big time, also learning another language and trying to assimilate not necessarily very well because I've always been an outlier everywhere, but I'm trying to integrate into this culture while having a relationship and then later becoming a mother and wife. Um, there was a point when I first stepped into motherhood.
It's a job that no one really tells you about. It's a labor of love. But, um, up to that point, I had been not really building a career or anything. And so, I really felt, to be my full self, I needed to have something more. And so that started a journey of trying to figure that out. I feel like this has been a lifelong thing.
I've never really known what my career was. I love people. I love languages. I've lived in major cities, all, you know, not all around the world, but in big parts of the world. And I've done all kinds of jobs. I've always been able to manifest some sort of career, but it was always never quite right. And now here I am.
The Netherlands, and my Dutch is passable, but to build a career, it was feeling really daunting and being a mom, the whole thing. So that started me on a journey of looking at what do I really want to do? And it was to serve and help other people, specifically who are expats, because that's what I was in at the time.
And then I found this coaching company that Offered classes on the weekends, perfect for moms. And it was over six months. And the minute I did the intake, I knew this was, this is the thing that I've always wanted to do. And when I think back over 20 years, coaching was always kind of something in the background.
We just didn't have a word for it back then. So that started my career in coaching and just, you have to walk the path. To learn the coaching again, another self development course. And, um, there were so many things and I've been thinking about it a lot lately. Just these amazing awarenesses that came up in forward for me to see.
And it really just shines the best part of what I can offer people. That's that's how I feel. So that's the beginning and that was nine years ago or even before because I remember having to make the statement to my husband, I need something more. That was a huge step too. So that began that part of it and the coaching company that I worked or that I got my coaching through really encouraged, um, opening up a business at the same time.
And I was like, Whoa. And that sounded exciting and fun. I didn't even see any danger in it, or I didn't think about all the strategies and all, you know, it's just like, Oh, cool. I get to have a business. I can relate. This is how I do most things in my life. I'm like, Oh, let's move to the Netherlands. Boom, boom, boom.
It comes later and it's okay. Cause that's life. Right. But I'm, I'm like the one that'll be the first to jump on the boat. Right. And months go by and there's just. There's things that go along with business, but over the years, what I realized was it wasn't quite right. It wasn't quite it. It wasn't quite the name.
It wasn't, it just kept feeling like coaching's right check, but there was so much more I wasn't bringing to the table and. It was happening, but I wasn't really telling people I was connecting with them in an intuitive, energetic way, and I would say the thing that they were just about to say or have the right solution.
And it happened in my coaching classes too, where I would go, I'd be drawn to somebody, mostly my teachers, and I, and they would be like, Whoa, and they were in a space of allowing that growth. So that was very empowering. But it also was showing me something about myself. And it went to places I couldn't even have guessed.
And I know now was, yeah, go ahead. It sounds like that you kind of figured out some practical logistical details of, I'm going to be a coach, I'm going to be an entrepreneur. But there was this other piece of, Maybe some people call it maybe a Dharmic path or a calling, like something that wants to move through you into the world that you, and I'm curious where, do you feel like you kind of were aware of that, but you just weren't ready to look fully at it and say yes to it fully?
Or did that evolve in you over time, this sense of I'm being called to a certain kind of work? Um, a little bit of both, but To be straightforward, this has happened to me before in my life, and I was much, much younger, with no mentor, no teacher, no guide, at a time before, really, the internet was even really alive.
Um, so I was, I am aware, I have always been aware, I have done a really good job of hiding it, because of, A lot of things, um, I And hiding what, specifically? Uh, what's that? Is it Hiding what? Share Can you share a little bit? Yeah, I can. Um, My psychic abilities, and my channeling abilities. Um, when I first came into them, I was a young woman of 22 and they came on very strong.
And so this could be considered a spiritual awakening. Some people call it a psychic spiritual awakening. Um, and it was really intense and very euphoric. Um, I was telepathic. I really could do things and that I did not understand and why, and it was always four people and. It would be just these tiny things that were happening.
Um, it wasn't like, Oh, I could move things across the room or anything like that. But it was a lot. And because of that experience, a number of unfortunate things started to happen and I ended up being hospitalized for it. So it was very traumatic. And you can imagine at that time, people were. Not really open at all.
And the messaging was I had a psychotic break and here's some medicine. And stop doing that thing.
To be very clear, I got the message and I went back into, it never went away, Michelle, but I did my damnedest to not let it come out. So it was repressed. Big time. Yeah. And how do you make sense of that experience now in the context of your, the arc of your journey, having been some distance from down the road now?
Yeah, I mean, it's still unfolding in a lot of ways because it does take courage to first even announce that in any way for all of us who have those abilities, but to come back out again, I mean, I'm just going to own that. It's taken me a path. Um, But what I make sense of it is exactly what I'm doing.
Anybody out there who's scared to come out of the closet, the spiritual closet we call it, um, who are afraid of being rejected or for my specific journey, being hospitalized and being called crazy or any other label you want to put on it. For having an ability that we don't have any education on. It's just something that happens.
I mean, I can think of times in my childhood when this was true, but we learn how to adapt and understand who and what can handle what. So it was repressed, but it was also, I want to fit in desperately, right? I know I'm weird. And I celebrate that weirdness now, but I, you know, we all want to protect ourselves.
So I understand that. And that's, and that's how I make sense of it now, is that I'm here to help people do the thing I didn't have back then, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I also work with a lot of women who are on the path of trying to understand their gifts more fully and understand how to bring their gifts more fully into the world, how to offer those things, how to have the confidence and the courage to take that action.
And, you know, some people refer to this. as the witch wound, but I think it lives in our collective consciousness as women of just that, that fear of being, you know, killed or tossed out of the, of the village for having, you know, How, let's just say powers and knowledge and abilities that people can't make sense of all the time in the material plane.
So I think this is, you know, as I see it, it's, it's a collective trauma that's living in the bodies of women that we have to negotiate with as we step into this type of work. Even if it doesn't have, even if your work doesn't have a mystical connotation just stepping onto the stage in this visibility, in this way, we have to, you know, negotiate our relationship with our power and our voice and all of those things.
So I totally understand all that you're saying. Yeah, I think the. I, Oh, I just want to say, I think the witch wound and the mother wound and the centuries of oppression for women, it's so intertangled it's, you know, yes, all of us being business owners is. And doing this feminine work is huge. I just want to say I totally agree with you.
Absolutely. Yeah, so I know you work with women a lot on, um, confidence and, and these same topics. So I'm curious to hear from you. What do you feel like that potential is that you're holding for your clients and how do you support them to move in that direction?
What is that potential I'm holding for my clients? You know, sometimes I have clients in front of me and I see it. You know, I get a total download. I can feel how sometimes, and most often, they have powers that are way bigger and more developed than me, naturally. And I'm fine with that. My role is to help get that out.
Like, that's how I see it. It's like, stop letting the limiting beliefs crowd that we need it. Right. And I want that magic out there. Um, cause in no way I have any hubris to think that I'm the one, right. I feel like we are one. Doing it together in different ways and it has happened a lot where I'll see the potential of someone and I can feel how they Need to have it a certain way Because that's what we understand to be real in this 3d world of linear thinking And it's so beautiful to see them Not give in but feel in to who they are and then those moments after or where the transform and they're just coming I mean, they're saying the words that I was hoping they would come to without me putting on, you are this, they get it and they see it.
And then, then they even go further than I could have even, I just love that whole process. And now they're like good, close friends of mine and I'm actually seeking help from them. And it's like back and forth and it's such a love fest after that. But, you know, I hope I was clear on what I was. Well, so what are some of those edges that people bump up against in your experience when they're doing this work of coming into their power and their courage and their voice?
So some of the things they bump into, it's, it's a lot about the social programming and limiting beliefs. And a lot of it's about protection and safety and that feeling. And it comes from all kinds of environments, but it usually starts when we're children. And it was not safe for me to be loud. That's a woman thing for sure.
It's not safe for me to express. My feelings on something, or I've told the truth and now I've been told that not, you know, gaslit. There's a lot of those things that are heavy and deep, and they are usually attached to one of the times that their abilities were showing up for the first time. And, um, Yeah, and, and it's, then it becomes a limiting belief, right?
It blooms into, I'm not good enough. I shouldn't trust myself or my gifts. These things are bad and evil, um, maybe. Because if you're from a religious background, let's talk about religion, that's a whole other level of stuff that Really gets in our way. Believe me, I had to fight through that myself. Um, you know, how can I have this and still be considered okay.
In the eyes of God, that one. That one is a big theme for a lot of us, but most of it's not feeling good enough in simple terms Impostor syndrome is Michelle gonna believe that I just got this information from does not matter where the information comes from does she? Feel seen believe, you know, like, you know, we have to do this head thing a lot.
Um, people pleasing. We want to be accepted. So we do a lot of people pleasing and it's not just saying yes to people, but like, is that okay that I said that to you? You know, do you, you know, checking in for validation that we're doing it right? Just perfectionism. I mean, all of the main limiting beliefs are at play because that's the societal boundaries we've learned.
And what we're able to do is outside of those boundaries. How did you know that? I've been asked a lot. How did you know that? I don't know. Um, cause I connect with people's loved ones. I, I connect on the other side. I, you know, I. And the more I accept my gifts, the more they get developed. And sometimes I get a bonus gift after a while, it's weird, but the doors open once you start opening the door, more come in.
But when somebody asks me how or why I'm not for you, because I can't, it's not about proving me. It's about accepting the message. And that's a different way than we're used to in society. I feel it. Yeah, definitely. I work in the realms of feminine and embodiment, and a lot of that happens outside of the realm of the material.
It happens in this non linear, sometimes, you know, unknown space that we can't necessarily grab onto. We can't necessarily even always have the language or the words for the currents that are moving through us in our bodies. So, you know, I talk about in my work a lot that we're actually doing really paradigm rewriting work with this because we're upending this material, this materialistic, like, focus.
obsession that we have in our society around that it has to be tangible, it has to be linear, it has to, we have to be able to grab onto it. Um, yeah, exactly, exactly. So I'm curious, what, what do you feel like your current edge in this is? What, What are you bumping against, personally, in terms of... Oh, holy shit.
I am of the belief, healing is always evolving with where you're at. So, the limiting beliefs, they may not be as ragey as they once were. I never thought I would say the words psychic and my name together. So, um... For a while, that was one way that I was working with my healing was what word is giving me resistance, but for my clients, it's really about what is confidence and how can you be confident what you're doing in your business, speaking.
Hi, this is Susan, the psychic. Can you actually, you know, what is confidence? And I believe confidence is really just a side effect of really being truly yourself. So stepping into that authenticity, I can do these things. I haven't really been able to talk about it for 25 years. Okay. What's the first step you could take towards that?
Because it's calling you. I'm using myself as my own client. And then. I had a couple of bad, you know, turns here and there with different coaches because they weren't ready. You really have to be in a space with somebody who can see it and feel it and accept anything. And I, like, you know, I just said. I had a few, I went back into the closet because I channeled somebody's mom in one of my, my sessions and I didn't know what to do with it.
And I went to my then support person and it was the same closed door. I can't hear this. You're, you know, it felt like the hospital thing all over again. Like I can't accept this about you. So my current edge is to give that. To my clients to give them the space and compassion of growing into it and whether it's about your abilities or it's about talking about it.
Standing up for yourself and your business, wherever that is for the client. I wanna be there to hold that space and help them. Mm-hmm. with that, because I deeply and intimately know it's a journey that I don't feel is ever complete, but it gets better and easier the more we step into it. I think this is really important for people to hear, whether you're far along on your journey and you, and this is a reminder for you, or whether you're just starting out or early on in your journey and you're wondering about this question that the journey and the process is always unfolding.
There's never a point where we arrive somewhere where we're psychic enough or spiritual enough or deepening process.
Yes, I so this is something I'd love to talk even a whole hour on because I've seen this a while ago And it would be interesting to hear what you think about it where people were like You don't need to be healed or get any healing. You're not broken, but that's not Healing, we have this thought, we always think everything needs to be fixed, and that's one way of thinking, we, meaning the collective, this is what we've known, that paradigm.
I have a pain point, how does it get solved, what's the outcome? And there's no wrong in it, but when you are doing that with healing, That doesn't work here, at least the work that we do, we're not trying to go, okay, Michelle, today, your limiting belief is officially done. You know what I mean? You're healed girl.
It's just not, you know, it's I've seen that. And as a coach, one of the very first things we're taught the very first thing in my school was, and I loved this. All human beings are whole and naturally resourceful. I'm not here to teach you something. I'm here to help bring something that's been missing out.
And that is, I mean, I cried so much in that first class because I felt like everybody should hear this. We've been taught that there's something wrong with us because we can't do the same thing So and so can do in the same class or the so I don't believe anybody's broken But healing is a process Mm hmm.
I get off my soapbox about that. I I totally agree with you in fact, I don't even like to use the word healing in When I speak and when I talk about my work because that's that's just not a paradigm that I really want to subscribe to I totally agree with you that we're all whole. And I think we need a new word for what we're doing.
That's, you know, what I'm the way I kind of think about it is more excavation of self. And coming into greater and greater levels of authenticity, of truth, of expression, of fullness, of aliveness. Yes. Yes. And that's why sometimes I get disconnected with trying to talk to what is the quote unquote problem.
It's the challenge. That you're facing, right? And how can we find the answer or more better put, how can you find the answer with somebody holding a loving space? And that comes from love and acceptance and compassion for what is, what is true. Mm hmm. Anyway. Well, yeah, I mean, I think there's a deep spiritual and existential, uh, journey here with this tension between loving what is and wanting more or wanting to expand.
That is just part of the human experience and we all have to learn to, you know, to Hold both, really. It's yes and. It's not one or the other. It's how do I, how do I be wide enough for both of those? Yeah. It's like the best thing. You just said it so well, so. Yeah. So on this topic, one of the things I hear from, from women a lot of times is, um, like I'm still kind of in the messy middle of my journey in many ways.
How can I hold somebody in their process? So I'm curious to hear what you think about this, because if what I said is true, which is like, we never arrive at, you know, you're there and you're done, we're always unfolding, then what would you, what do you have to say about that? It's the imposter syndrome, of course, and...
When somebody says that they're making it more about themselves than what they're able to do, right? Right, so that's the ego and that's the limiting belief being pretty clever Telling you you can't do that for somebody because you haven't healed a healed Here's that weird again word and if we both know it's I only I only need to have a few Things further down the road to go look back and say, I'm just going to use you, Michelle over here Lighting the way I still have my broken wheel on my my wagon But you know come up this way and then you get there and maybe we travel together, you know it's needs to be seen more like a journey than a Destination, so to speak, there is definitely mile markers and guideposts and Oh, aha.
And you can feel that growth in you, but being a space holder, I feel like is the most powerful work we could do as women. Outside of, you know, holding a baby and in our wombs and birthing them. It's a similar energy, you know, about embodiment. It's that's, that's embodiment big time. Right. And just holding space, even with that in you and knowing it's not about me.
Whatever happens here will be the co creation of two people coming together under that umbrella of whatever arrive, I want you to feel safe. Through love because that's love holding space for somebody to let them, you know, shine through as who they are There's been many times people will say stuff in my sessions and I'm like little Susan's over here going what the hell, you know It's not about me And I'll just be like, go over there.
She needs this moment. I'm just going to, you know, add more love to this. Some things I learned through my clients. I didn't even know existed like light language. What? So I don't know it all. And I don't show up like the expert either because I'm still learning just like everybody else. So that's what I would say to them.
That's where that came from was the imposter syndrome and. The ego is playing on them and believe me, she's working her magic on me too. Every day. So it's not like I have that imposter syndrome defeated at all. Well, yeah. Okay. Case in point right here, you know, and I think what you're saying is really important that the skill of space holding and the skill of your practitionership.
doesn't depend on you being perfectly embodied or perfectly healed or perfectly whatever. It doesn't depend on that. You can still do beautiful space holding. And you also mentioned one of the things that I think is a key ingredient to being able to do that powerfully, even though you're still in the messy middle, which is the trust in the space and in what needs and what the other person is.
Is bringing through that. It's not actually about you. It's about the other person. And there's this deep, deep level of trust that when you have that scale of space holding that skill of your practitionership, there's that trust in the other person's body and the other person's path and journey. The right thing is going to happen for them in that session in that moment.
Definitely. And they feel it too. You know, you know, before we did this podcast, you. Did, um, with me a little meditation, I don't want to give away the secrets, but what I do with everybody, because it brings us together energetically. And whether you do that in your practice or not, somebody is being vulnerable with you.
They need to feel you there. That's all you have to do is just be there. Yeah. I'm present. It's not up here. What's the right thing to say? And I know when I was first was a coach, I'm like, I have to ask powerful questions. And once I unhooked from that and let my intuition flow, I mean, that's where the floodgates started opening, but, but what I realized is I was being given permission by my client to be what she needed.
And I needed. You know, it was like this reciprocal, uh, I can't say the word, the reciprocal thing that was going on. We were both getting extra out of it. So that's where the magic happens is when you realize we're both helping each other. Totally. And there's another question that comes to mind in this discussion, which I've heard from people, which is, um, When I'm on the path and I've been doing all this work and I'm trying to build this business, but it's not working or like I'm not getting the traction that I feel even though I'm pouring my heart and soul into my spiritual path into my practices into, you know, pouring out into the world, all of that, that I know and understand.
So I'm curious what you would say to people about that. Yeah, this is something I'm learning myself or unlearning.
Because what that has is the energy of hustle and, um, doing, and so I'm not sure exactly what that specific person is, but that's what I'm hearing from it. And what that means is you're not giving yourself break and a rest and, you know, your own sense of rejuvenation. And this is something I had to learn even a year ago, I took a break from my business.
I had to totally unhook. Is this what I really want? I took four or five months off. It was probably the scariest thing I ever did because I'm from that culture where we do 24 7 and you cannot, now we can online order and have people bring things to us and that's in me. I learned that. And I learned, Oh, if I don't show up enough, then no one feels like I'm, I'm not really there for them, but we all need energetic boundaries and we all need to follow mother earth and the seasons.
There's a time to harvest. There's a time to rest. There's a time to, you know, sow your seeds, all of that. And I mean, I've followed a lot of people who are starting to understand the divine feminine and the cycles, whether it's through the moon or through the seasons. We're not meant to have everything all the time.
There's a reason. We're part of Mother Earth. We have to remember that, too. So give yourself some love. Don't shame yourself. Like, I've been, you know, that energy, and it's arrived to me as recently as the other day. So I'm not, I'm talking from like real Time experience, you want something so bad. You have this vision and your heart is full.
Let it go for a little bit and breathe, read a book, do something else. You know, I think that's the invitation. When you I'm working, I'm pouring my heart into it. Yes. Are you giving some love to yourself is how I would answer them. Chances are no, because we're used to this. Mm hmm. Thanks. You're well. Thank you.
I'm doing the sim now, but I couldn't find the words. Thank you. Yeah. And I think one thing that I hear you speaking to in between the lines as well is this trust piece again. And what is occurring to me to ask you is what's your relationship with safety? Like, how do you know that you're safe? How do you cultivate and connect with?
An embodied sense of safety. Where, where does that come from for you? Such a good question. It's very intuitive of you because that was a big breakthrough for me and my coaching. And it's the lesson I'm most here to learn is to trust myself as well as all of my clients. Um, for me, it's energetic. It lands right in my solar plexus and into my sacral.
And in my heart, so I know I'm safe by the words people say and how they're saying it and I can feel that it's okay to open up. And there's probably other cues but those, I'm a big sound person too and I can just tell, I can just tell I'm safe in this space. Um, also by their actions too. There's visual cues, but there's so little that I, you know, I couldn't really articulate that.
But that's for me, when I feel safe and I've, I'm also unlearning that I don't, I can find safety in myself. I don't have to rely that on the person in front of me. That's something I'm moving into more as I'm getting more and more public about myself. Um, And I, this is my growth edge and I'm totally being transparent about it.
Um, I've been publicly putting stuff out under my own public profile, and that was a big, scary thing for me. And I still have one step to go, but you know, I'm, I'm thinking about the people who I grew up with and I'm thinking about my parents and I won't lie. You know, I've compartmentalized some things to keep me safe and that's okay.
I'm okay with that because I trust. And what I've done and when I feel fully safe in myself, I know it'll just be a matter of pressing that button, but not any time before. I want to say that I can sit here and hold that for somebody go tomorrow, do five posts on how much you, you know, blah, blah, blah. You need to feel that in you.
Right. And you know. There's no shame if you're not ready, especially if you had an experience that made you feel shame around your abilities, or if anybody said you're not good enough to be a healer, any kind of that makes us go back in and that takes a while for us to heal and feel safe again. Yeah, it totally is a process.
And I love what you're saying. I say the same thing, but it is totally a process to land there, which is our own inner truth and knowing can be a resource of safety, can be a resource of safety, and in fact it is really our only and our most powerful resource of safety. Exactly, because, I mean, I have some really good friends who help me through stuff, and they can say all the right things.
But there be days where I'll hear it and I'll be like, I can't hear it, you know, we're very powerful in how we create our world. And sometimes it's okay to be with that crappy feeling of not feeling good enough and finding and asking questions. Why do I feel this way? Why is this coming up? I'll tell you when they really happen is when you're moving on up, when you are growing.
They come out to say get back in. What are you doing out here? And there was a great analogy I learned a long time ago about, I don't know if you've ever heard of this, about when crabs are put in a pot and there's the steam starts. There's always one that's smart enough to climb on top of the others to get out.
You know what the other crabs do? Pull you back down. So whether it's your limiting beliefs that are trying to protect you, or somebody reflecting what your limiting beliefs are trying to tell you. There's always going to be something that says, go back, go back. You know, what are you doing? And it takes courage to keep going.
And to face it down. So when somebody, if somebody who's listening to this is feeling like they're called to something more, what, what one piece of advice or tool or practice would you give to that person? So in the sense of showing up. As kind of a first step, like let's say they're, let's say somebody is listening to this and they're like, I know that I'm supposed to be doing something more than what I'm doing.
What, what do you feel like would be the thing that you would tell them, want them to, want to leave them with from this conversation?
Trust everything that you're hearing right now. Open up a book, open up a journal and start writing, whether it's in a, just connecting with yourself. So for me, it's always writing, maybe voice clipping these, these thoughts and feelings because you're getting the messages now. And it feels like you don't understand it, but once you start writing it, it will be clear and invite More answers.
I mean, honestly, journaling has always saved me. Um, and I'll ask while I'm in the middle of writing this thought down, I'm having a bad day. I need some help. And then I'll get an answer. Well, go have a cup of coffee or, you know, whatever, just being silly, but that's connecting with you. You have the answer.
You're looking for a how that's in the head, get into the heart. And the best way to do that is making a space so you can hear yourself. And sometimes it's, I'll do voice clips and listen to my own voice and I'll be like, Oh yeah. You know, it sounds simple, but it can be very, it is a game changer. It does help.
Yeah. Wow. I love that. Making space so you can hear yourself. Super, super valuable. Um, Susan, how can people find you? Well, I have a website, susandivarine. com. I finally get my domain straightened out to just be my name. Um, I'm also on Instagram at the intuitive empath coach and also on Facebook under that same, uh, name intuitive empath.
And I also have a Facebook group confidence for spiritual business owners. It's free, it's open, and it's a great place to start sharing yourself in that way, you know, if you need to build up your confidence. I invite people, I'm inviting Michelle to, to, to um, show us what she offers, but it's, it's always helpful, these things, to.
Talk about what you do. It actually helps you remember what you're doing and I thank you for this for myself Well, thank you for being here and sharing your journey and being vulnerable It's been so lovely to connect with you and just really encouraging you and celebrating you in the work that you're doing in the world We will put all of those links in the show notes so that you can find Susan and connect with her amazing body of work and Yeah.
Wishing everybody such a wonderful rest of your day, week, month. Susan, is there any last things that you want to share before we wrap up our podcast today? First, I want to say thank you. And I want to say to any women or men, I'm not sure what audience will listen to this. The strongest gift you have is believing in yourself.
I'm receiving that as well. Thank you so much, Susan. All right. Take care. Bye bye.